ESL

edited September 2014 in General
As far as I know at this point, there are no ESL available in North America. They still seem to be the best candidate so far for a trapping/sled dog. Does anyone have experience with this breed? Do they work closer than WSL ? Thank you.

Comments

  • @Westsiberianlaika has some experience with them...
  • Same with @ivi (Irina Viljas).
  • Thanks Dave! :)
    Yes, I have East Siberian laikas. I have 3 females and 1 male.
    Their searching is more wide than searching of WSL or REL. That is the reason why ESL are not so popular in Baltic countries, because there they have very small hunting areas.
    Yes, ESL can be better as a sled dog than WSL, because ESL have little bit longer body. But what do you mean by trapping dog? ESL are barking dogs. They track dawn animals and bark at them. Also they bark up trees if there is something to bark at :)
    So, their hunting style is quite same with other laikas.

  • I think by trapping Coyotejim was referring to using the dog as a transport up and down a trapline, which can require a different kind of temperament than dogs bred for racing. I'd imagine that a barky hunting breed may cause it's own issues went tending to traps, such as wanting to go after the trapped game that may still be living or the barking causing a trapped animal to be harder to put down.
  • edited September 2014
    He should probably answer for himself, since the definition of trapping dog varies from region to region.

    I know in Texas, a trap-line dog is one which can kill an animal which is ensnared in the trap, so the trapper doesn't have to waste a bullet.

    image

    image

    Airedales, German Wire-haired Pointer and Lacy Curs are used for this purpose Mind you, up here, in Alberta, this way of dispatching animals is considered as unethical. But it's not considered as unethical in Texas-- for some reason Texans believe letting the dog kill the animal is more "humane" than shooting it.

    But in Northwest Territories/Nunavut, a trapline dog is like this:



    The dogs in the documentary are Qimmit (plural of Qimmiq) or known in English as Canadian Inuit Dog.

    But in the same region, there is one trapper who call his Labrador a trapper's dog because it can tree grouses and retrieve beavers while he's busy setting up traps.

    Or maybe it's the same concept Vladimir Beregovoy described at one point about Samoyed-type dogs where they hauled fox-furs back to civilization for trading.

    On the other hand, I heard of Alaskan trappers referring to trappers' dogs as the ones who can be trained to avoid killing traps.

    So, I don't know what @coyotejim 's definition for a trapping dog in southern British Columbia, or what his needs are.

  • Thanks for the info Dave. That is a pretty strange dispatch method. Don't think it a more humane method myself, and exposes the dogs to needless risk. Mainly I am looking for a dog that will hunt cats, marten, fisher etc, and grouse, can be taught not to kill itself in a trap or snare, act as a watch dog, and be a companion. Thanks to you as well, Ivi. Given that my one major concern with the WSL is the range they hunt, it is good to know that the ESL is not a better choice based on this.
  • edited September 2014
    When you first came to the forum, you were fascinated by Happy People documentary and other similar ones about Russian commercial hunters, yes? And you wanted to follow the same lifestyle on your own trapping territory, correct?

    @ivi has intimate knowledge on this lifestyle and of East Siberian Laikas. Also, she has been to Siberia before, and she imported dogs from that region. So, she would know more about this more than any of the other registered users here.

    Short of writing a letter to Sergei Bogatov, I don't know who else to recommend getting in touch with about commercial hunting/trapping with Laikas. This seem to be the kind of style you want.

    The only other expert ( @uralman ) on the forum with intimate knowledge about commercial-hunting on this forum is a West Siberian Laika fancier. He knows quite a bit about East Siberian Laikas, but West Siberians are his favourite and most of his stories are the Urals area.

    Most of us here are recreational hunters. It's quite different to hunt for pleasure or for food than it is to hunt and getting results even if the weather is unfavourable to meet a deadline in time for the fur-auctions.

    (Sorry, when a person's alias is tagged with @, they get a notification in their e-mail inbox. So, I am hoping others can continue the discussion and provide the informatioin you need.)
  • I think wsl is smart enough to figure out a trap line. They are very intelligent. It will hunt everything you mentioned and will probably hunt what you are trapping also. I've seen dogs do things not normal for that breed to do. Enough time on a trap line a laika will figure it out. No matter what breed of dog you use it will need training on a trap line and in the hunting woods.
  • Often in states that you would use drags instead of staking traps down a trapline dog helps find the animals. I have seen those pictures before you posted from TX. I actually think they were used as anti trapping but if you notice the Airedale did not engage the animal but was baying it. Many people that love Airedales where upset because Airedales are suppose to be very gritty dogs that is why they are sometimes thrown in a bear pack to force the bear that won't tree to tree (often bear hound hunters refer to them as walking bears). When I talk to guys that use jagdterriers they tell me they do not want a bullet hole in the hide so they use a dog. I am not saying it is right but that is what they say. In my mind a trapline dog is mostly a companion on the line and to track an animal that pulled the stake and still has the trap on its foot or in the use of sets using drags. I think the laika would be very suitable especially if they were to bay not dispatch the trapped game. If you have ever ran a trapline you could see where a companion would be nice it is dark, cold, and lonely chore running a trapline.
  • edited September 2014
    The photos were from a website from a Deutsch Drahthaar breeder who is in a feud with an Airedale breeder in New York; basically trying to libel the Airedale breed by saying it's not game enough to finish the job.

    http://airedalesareafailure.wordpress.com/

    I would caution against hanging out on this site too long. I got flagged by the government for browsing a known neo-Nazi site and the only one I visited was that blog. Haven't gotten a letter from the Internet Service Provider for awhile now though.

    The drama between the two individuals is... amusing.

    Regardless, it was the last place I vividly remembered photos like that.

    But up here, the deer-stalkers basically banned coyote-coursing a decade and half ago. Some of my relatives, who once owned sighthounds, are still angry at the deer-hunters for taking an elitist position. So, now people are afraid of letting their dogs kill varmints in fear of those hunting politics.

    Thankfully, letting a dog kill a coyote is still legal in B.C....
  • I saw it on another site called Big Game Houndsmen. They were very hateful about an Airedale. I use to be on the Airedale board and thought I would like one but they did not have enough tree to fit my needs. After I started sharing my Laika photos and videos on the Other dog section of their board, they asked me to longer post anything abut Laikas on the board. I began to wonder if it was because several of their board members started to inquire about Laikas. After the hateful message from the forum moderator I decided I no longer needed to follow their board; especially after the individual said the Laika looked like something they would use to pull a sled. My response was very simple "Bring your best treeing Airedale you have and I can guarantee I will have more game treed than the Airedale ever thought about." Not that I do not think an Airedale is a fine dog but it is not been bred for ten thousand years to tree game.
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